RyokoTK

If you would have told me before now that, in 2017, nine mappers would contribute collaboratively to make a full-length scenario for Marathon, I would lave laughed in your face.

It's an absolutely funny and irreverent scenario, and a wonderful effort by W'rkncacnter and Windbreaker in turning a silly throwaway idea into a project that was really engaging to help work on and is genuinely a lot of fun to play.

(It's actually really cool and popular.)

Its a good effort but does not alleviate the core problem of Marathon being a complete sausage fest, as though the 3rd party Marathon Universe wasn't bleak enough to begin with now it has human women with no sex appeal.

The wait continues for sexually appealing BoBs, a feature that would fundamentally change the Marathon sandbox.

At best it answers the question as to why there are no children on the Marathon, the men and women of the Marathon won't touch each other.

I would have given this 5 stars, but you tagged it "xpert" instead of "official."

Please take Simplici7y seriously.

Not enough pointless corridors to make a Morrowind reference.

Irons kindly didn't post how the game works. Basically it's an EMFH script where everyone starts with rockets, and after each kill you get demoted to a weaker weapon, and the winner is the first person to get a kill with fists.

A really fun script. Really interesting because it forces you into interesting weapon matchups that you don't see in normal play, and it's also a nice rubberbanding system to keep less-performing players in the game.

Windbreaker is probably pretty tired of me pointing out tiny imperfections and issues that don't actually matter, but that's because there's nothing actually wrong with this stuff. Captain Confidence is a supremely good map and worth the price of admission on its own, but the rest of the pack is good too. The M1 and M2 maps mixed in are very nice too, and Windbreaker avoids the obvious trap of mixing them together with the Infinity textures, so good job dude. But mostly, the geometry and layouts are very competently done and are lacking in some of the minor annoyances that cropped up throughout Caustic Dystopia, and everyone should just download this pack because it's actually different from the usual stuff you see these days.

when it says "damager" its mostly referring to emotional damage.

I like that the very first screenshot has misaligned textures. That should really tell you everything.

Everything that Crater Creator posted previously sums this up perfectly. One thing I need to add is that textures that have solid black backgrounds are meant for transparent sides, not walls.

I thought I 4got.

I mean, duh.

.

I'll further render S7's review system utterly meaningless by rating this a "5" just for putting lazy shitposters in their place.

Also, there were actually a couple very cool (if impractical in multiplayer) ideas executed here.

Congratulations in advance on 1,000 downloads. (It's at 933 at the time of this review, but I'm sure it's due to happen soon.)

Make some single player maps. Then it won't feel like your detailing skills are being wasted when most people won't notice them in a EMFH game.

Oh yeah, the maps. Your two new entries are fantastic. And they aren't arena maps, so I'd give you a 6 if possible for actually taking the more difficult route.

I've actually played several games on several of these maps, and never made any serious comments.

They're really good! I can see a lot of growth as I go down the list; A Warm Feeling and Hide and Seek are two really visually/geometrically mature maps that use a lot of good texture choices to make it work.

The maps all seem mechanically sound, too; nothing stands out as really bad, except for maybe the map Weight of the World, which I am pretty sure was the first map, and it shows. It's to the point that you might want to make a new pack, because you're going to start veering away from the styles of your original efforts.

Differential shading still needs work, and on the whole the pack is too reliant on arena-style maps, but it's still a very good effort on the whole.

I like the addition of the health and oxygen overlay at the top of the screen. Reading the bottom of the screen is too much work.

I gave you a bunch of suggestions, and I'm pretty sure you didn't follow any of them, so I'm not entirely sure why you asked me to test your map to begin with. I said I would have given your map a 2.5 as it was, and I'm rounding down.

Anyway, in short:

• Differential shading
• Differential shading
• Differential shading
• Your battles are pointlessly oversized
• No balance for Total Carnage; there's not enough ammo without relying on fists/infighting, and the card room is a pretty ridiculous fight on TC that you can't really win without stupid amounts of luck
• KTA maps aren't really any better when they're bigger, look at Marathon 2 or something to figure out how to make interestingly designed maps with actual objectives

I wanted to dismiss this pack out of hand for being old, because most maps made before the metaserver era were made by people that never really had the means to play multiplayer extensively, so they were generally really idiotic and horrible to play. Turns out these aren't so bad.

This pack has a lot of dumb problems: stupid dead ends, gimmicky traps, lots of corridors and tight spaces, and architecture that's generally unclear or muddy. The lighting is also, on the whole, pretty flat. So yeah, comparing it to maps made in the last few years, these don't really hold up. But when comparing it against stock Infinity maps, or Coriolis Loop, these are actually decent; I would expect maps made 15 years after these to be better, because that's how these things work.

And, the mapper gets a cookie, because these maps don't have monsters AND they have enough ammo -- two problems that consistently plague old maps, or new maps modeled after them. So, on the whole, this pack is recommendable as a curiosity, but nothing really stood out.

EDIT: Treellama pointed out to me that I'm just assuming that these maps are actually really old. If these maps were made after, oh, 2005, then they're completely terrible.

I hope you at least started by cribbing the physics files that came with Infinity/Forge, so at least you had a head-start on your zero-effort "monsters fight themselves!" physics file.

All of the new maps in this version were of the reliable "open space in middle, ring around the outside" format.

Stop it.

Other than that these maps are pretty much flawless. I was particularly impressed with the uncharacteristically subtle lighting on Dunces and the very gentle curve on The Pod. Just make your layouts more complex (or at least more unique) and you'd have a truly top-flight pack on your hands.

(ETA: I posted this, and then realized I hadn't yet played Convinced of the Hex. However, it ALSO fell into this format. Double stop it.)

(ETA 2: The high quality of your newer maps is making the early Caustic Dystopia maps look terrible. Time for a new pack!)

For people that are trying to apply a consistent lighting effect over a large/geometrically complex area, this utility is great.

But if people start using this to light their entire maps with the same effect, I will reach through my ethernet cable through the entire internet to where you (yes, you, Crater Creator) live and murder you.

I hope it was worth it.

It's really important that every hideous rendition of the Marathon 1 HUD is its own separate file. That way, when I visit Simplici7y, half the front page is filled up with insignificant variations on the same awful HUD. Thank you!

This isn't a message board. Also the physics file sucks and is stupid and you are stupid too, Teemuk.

no official tag? how will I find this again when I search for it? treellama is fat.

Shitty maps are supposed to be posted on 4/1.

Still no differential shading. You added the posts in the docks, but you can't actually see them because all of the surfaces are lit in the same way and it just blends together.

Seriously, read up on this stuff. http://pfhorums.com/index.php?showtopic=3918

But literally, go download COLORSPEACK on this site and you can see that those maps are more attractive and easily navigable than this one and they use a single color. Differential shading makes an enormous difference. More distinct lighting in general helps, rather than having dark room after dark room.

Also, you missed a texture on one of the post sides. Whatever. And your ceiling lights need to be checked as "From Ceiling" or they'll be stuck on the floor. Playing through your levels after you make changes like this will help you catch the easy mistakes.

Make another map. E1M1 will never not be boring.

So it's not exactly your fault that it's a boring map, but it is your fault because you picked a boring map to remake.

But hey, it's also got genuine problems that can be fixed easily for your next map:

1. Differential shading. Know it, love it. Flat lighting in your rooms make them boring.

2. Align your textures properly. And I don't mean where you had them purposely misaligned for secret doors; there are areas where you use textures that have discrete border lines and they're cut off oddly by not being positioned properly on the texture.

3. The texture on the east wall in polygon 93 (and the rest of that stairwell) is not a wall texture, it is a fence texture. It will cause texture smearing on certain graphical settings. Change it to something else.

4. The water moves too fast. Change the speed to somewhere between 0.001-0.005.

Make an original map next time, or at least pick a less boring game than Heretic to crib from.

Very competently made; the architecture is nice, and the flow is generally acceptable. To me, the layout tends to be a little overcomplicated, but I can't complain too much.

Please.

The thing about these maps is that it's really evident that you don't play online. Things like gimmicky stairs that are difficult to climb, slow-moving platforms that don't really stand out, teleporters that leave you facing walls, and the general sparseness of ammo that comes with unfamiliarity with netplay.

The other major problem is that the lighting quality is generally insufficient; there is a decent amount of differential shading, but most things are so bright it's garish. Couple that with some fairly schizophrenic texturing choices and the maps are generally an eyesore.

The positive thing is that there is a considerable amount of experience with Forge that's evident in the maps -- so it's not like I don't think you're capable of doing better. The main problem is really just that the good things are offset by issues that are somewhat obvious to experienced multiplayer people.

The architecture in general is on the nicer side, though the geometry may be too dense; this can cause glitches with rockets, which is another problem you wouldn't notice in single player, though the one thing for which you deserve endless credit is that there are no monsters.

Overall, these could do with a much more careful pass through Visual Mode (.lua or Forge) and some layout tweaks, but I think first and foremost you need to actually play online -- and play some of the more popular maps -- to get a better grasp of what makes a netmap a little better.

It's not Tim's fault this entire upload sucks.

Another Dimension isn't that hard, cheater.

Edit: I echo treellama's complaints.

...is only boring to play if you're a STUPID SCANDINAVIAN like some people.

CLIQUE seems to be mostly dedicated to putting joke uploads on simplici7y nowadays but, as far as they go, at least Aye Mak Sicur is a fun level to play.

Looks remarkable, especially for a first map, but I think the map is too geometrically complex for its size; slowdown should always be avoided whenever possible, and some of the details could be pared away for performance. (The best place for this is that candy-cane step in the big side room, which I think is pretty ugly anyway.) Still, the minute details in some places are really appreciated.

The layout itself is fine, but I think it tends too much toward hallways rather than rooms, which leads to an excess of suicides when there are as many rockets as there are on this map.

A word of caution for the future: more polygons do not make a map better. It's better to have a visually simple map that plays well than all the bells and whistles but either doesn't run smoothly or has various flow issues. In this case, slowdown is a problem.

The map itself certainly shows competence and a keen eye for details, and it'll just take practice to hash out the smaller stuff. I'd give this a 4.5 but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. (Plus you can't do half points anyway.)

Two things remain:

1. Still needs more ammo; it's particularly hard to find because the map is so spacious.
2. Research MML to fix that water fader!

You're just about there. This is a fun map, it just needs that final push.

The two new maps bring this pack from "good" to "excellent."

The only thing I'd change is to add a small amount of rockets to "Time;" with all that space they'd be balanced fairly well with the other guns I think.

How many more maps will there be before this becomes Maxipax?

Suck it down.

The idea isn't new but it's executed rather well. Having the player move as quickly as he does with the physics helps out greatly.

Some issues:

1. Basically the only weapons worth using are the SMG/shotguns; when you can fly, the grenades and rockets are entirely non-threatening. But...
2. There isn't nearly enough ammo for anything on this map. It's a huge map, but with myself and $lave we had trouble finding ammo. This is not good. I would also have some ammo floating around since no one will actually be walking on the ground normally. I think the problem lies in the item respawn rate, so I direct you here: http://www.pfhorums.com/index.php?showtopic=2403
3. The texturing is generally okay, but you greatly overdid the flickering lights. Static lights are quite fine. Generally speaking, the contrast is fine, so I would just get rid of most of your flashing and flickering lights; they're very annoying. Also, in one particular area you use the same light panel texture on almost every wall, which is really annoying.
4. This level is absolutely enormous and most of the side rooms are completely extraneous. In addition to its size, the multiple pits and the messed-up radar make it very difficult to find someone who's hiding. Uncheck the Magnetic radar setting.
5. Getting rid of that water fader is really important. I would embed mml to remove the fader entirely. On that note, merge in the physics, because the level is absolutely dependent on them.

This is a pretty tired idea but probably the best execution of it I've seen; it's just rough around the edges. Fix these listed problems and you would have a solid map.

1. I'm going to complain about how dark it is. I'm aware that that's the point. It's a stupid point. Not being able to see is the easiest way to make a bad level.

2. If you're going to alter an existing map, you should at least have the decency to alter a good one. That said, I'm impressed at how much worse you managed to make an already poor map.

3. What could drive someone to think "well I'm too lazy to make my own map why don't I just completely butcher this existing map in 15 minutes and publish it hurfadurfa" because that's ridiculous, make your own maps next time.

I mean, you didn't even do a good job.

And not just for the novelty of the snow effect; this is a genuinely good map.

There are a handful of problems consistent with all four maps:

• Not nearly enough spawn points. Every map should have a minimum of 8, no matter how big it is. Spawn-camping and spawn-killing were simply too frequent, and not even intentionally -- in a 5-player game we were spawning on top of each other on all of the maps.

• Generally poor weapon balance. It's a bad idea to only have one rocket launcher on the map, and a worse idea to have a ton of ammo for it at the same time! It lets one person hoard the good weapons and perpetually control the map. The problem was consistent with the rockets on all of the maps, and the shotguns as well on at least two of them.

• Not enough weapons near the spawns, or at least weapons worth anything. An assault rifle with no grenades is not helpful when one player has all the rockets and is spawn-camping at the same time -- see the above two bullet points. Similarly, for each weapon, put some ammo next to the weapon.

These problems make the maps virtually unplayable to any serious degree. Rinse the Valve is the best map, and I would put it at "decent" on a good day. The good news is that these problems are mostly fixable while retaining the maps.

Visually, the maps are good enough. Some differential shading is necessary, but the minor details (especially on M.I.A.) are appreciated. Flow-wise, the maps also could use some help, but generally they aren't horrible, except on M.I.A. where there is a major dead-end that led to many kills for the aforementioned rocket guy.

Fix these problems, then we'll talk. In the meantime, this pack can get no better than two stars from me.

As a mapper, Slave is really taking some considerable strides in technical ability, but has some problems with diversity; in short, many of his maps feel similar to each other and few of them are especially compelling on their own. When put in a pack together, the sameness of many of these maps becomes a big problem in choosing a map to play.

I find that stylistically the same sets of architectural elements find themselves present in almost all of his maps, which isn't necessarily bad (I am guilty of the same thing) but when they are as prevalent as they are in some maps here, they become less of a convincing motif and more closely resemble a lack of creativity. I think Ascent, Concentration Moon, and Firefly are basically the same map, for example; different texture sets, sure, but the weapon choices and general flow are very similar (and I still think Ascent is the best). Rainfall, In Limbo, and Deep Blue Day are also remarkably similar, or at least to me.

I think the problem is that most maps here are less a collection of rooms and more a collection of corridors and passageways. In my experience, rooms are both more fun to play in and more compelling as a composition. In that sense, Leek Hills, Riki Tiki Tavi, Ascent, and Tiger Mountain are some of the best maps in the pack. Tiger Mountain and Leek Hills especially provide a great balance between big, interesting main spaces, and functional secondary corridors and spaces that make the maps especially successful, whereas maps like Endless Night and Airbag are less memorable or interesting.

Other maps have problems with height changes that are both too dramatic and too drastic to really work well for this game. There's nothing specifically wrong with big heights and a dynamic use of them, but it can reach the point where the flow is so stilted, and too focused on going up and down, that it interrupts the gameplay. Airbag, Cloud of Eiderdown, and Ocean of Noise all have this problem to a severe extent. Maps that use height changes well are Rainfall and Deep Blue Day; in these cases, higher and lower elevations still interact well both by themselves and with each other, and the focus of flow is still more horizontal than vertical.

I think a constructive mapping exercise for Slave is to make a few maps that are simpler and focus on big issues rather than small ones. Cosmic Clouds still lacks a traditional arena, which is okay, but I believe that making an arena is an easy, fun, and productive exercise; successful arenas put all of the player focus on straightforward combat, which is something that is lost in the shuffle to some extent currently in this pack. Good arena maps are enjoyable and memorable. Making more maps that focus on one or two main rooms, with less focus on corridors, side spaces, ledges, and so on, would also probably be constructive. Riki Tiki Tavi is one such map, and one of the most flexible and most fun. Over Fire Island is a case where a good main space is tarnished by having too much cruft in the upper levels, which are so high they're detached from the main flow.

To me, the best maps are Ascent, Leek Hills, Tiger Mountain, and Riki Tiki Tavi. That is not, however, an invitation to make more maps like them. It would be better to take some of the metaphorical ideas that make them successful -- big spaces, smooth flow, memorable design -- and employ them in new maps.

And make less water maps. Take a look at the screenshots posted here -- five of them look like they could be the same map. I would like to see more maps that used Jjaro and Lava, especially. Different texture sets would encourage different architectural quirks and styles, which I think would be a good exercise.

I would like to give this pack a 4.5 -- it really is almost there, but it falls only a little short of being excellent material.

These are good maps and the pack is a promising start. While none of them are especially strong, they are fun and enjoyable maps with no noticeable flaws. I would happily play on any of them, but I probably wouldn't specifically request any of them.

The concept is interesting and, from what I remember of the source material, the adaptations are generally good. Treellama does a good job of balancing faithfulness to the original map while making the necessary adaptions when stepping down to a simpler engine.

Aesthetically, these maps are the best TL has to offer. Egyptian Temple looks great for what it is; this map is a shining example of how differential shading is absolutely necessary when the texturing is simpler. Velora Pass's texturing is horrible -- the obvious byproduct of the two sets used together -- but architecturally the map is ooverflowing with small details that really contribute to a good overall aesthetic, and the lighting is exceptional. Zora's Domain is a good mesh of good texturing and good architecture, and is an unusually vertically-oriented map for the arboreal camelid.

Overall, a good pack, but one that needs to find one or two real winners.

You guys are jerks. Ray worked very hard on this.

It's clearly by RKYOKOTK. It says so right in the description.

stop review-spamming or i will tell appleswitch

some of these maps aren't like

...u no -- or do u?

I first reviewed 1.0.0... and since then, more maps have been added, but the overall quality has not improved much, so to me this pack still remains a 4.

Ascent still remains my favorite map. Of the new maps (since 1.0), though, Leek Hills is the most visually impressive -- Slave definitely shows a mastery of the Water textures in some of these maps.

Most of the new maps are good enough to keep me wanting more (except for Sky Saw, no more of that), and the quality of the pack overall is certainly rising. With a little more care, and a bit more diversity, this pack would be true quality.

This is a pack that shows promise, but needs a lot of work and refinement. There are a couple maps that are almost there, and are certainly playable, but overall a lot of work needs to be done.

Common problems include:

• Too much diversity in weapon choices, which leads to not enough ammo or guns for any of them and too many useless ones.
• Lighting is generally flat (except for Imperial Uranus); more contrast is needed overall.
• Texturing needs work but is decent.
• A noticeable penchant for big, empty rooms -- which is ok, but boring. These need to be spiced up.
• Deceptive level size markers (Imperial Uranus is much smaller than Docking Bay 4).

Some specific level notes:

• The 1x recharger on Avoiding the Light is unnecessary.
• Waterloo Carnage is probably my favorite, but it needs at least 3x as much ammo.
• Imperial Uranus is also good, it just needs more gun spawns. The extra textures are unnecessary and don't mesh well.

Waterloo Carnage and Imperial Uranus especially show growth, and they could form the beginnings of a solid, high-quality pack.

After 15 minutes I was sold. The script does what it says on the tin, and it does an extremely good job of replicating Forge's abilities whenever possible, and exceeding them whenever capable.

There are a few obvious problems, but it's less a fault of the script and more just an engine limitation. The controls are sub-par, but the HUD does a good job of clarifying what does what. There are a few minor differences in functionality between this and Forge's visual mode, but nothing that breaks the bank. The only key problem I have is that, currently, yaw and pitch aren't locked when aligning textures, meaning that if you want to align a texture on a wall you can't do so without simultaneously looking around. Adding control panels is a little bit sticky, but workable. There are a couple other personal preferences but they don't really detract from the script.

Overall, this is an outstanding utility that very nearly renders Forge's visual mode obsolete, and I heartily recommend it for anyone -- especially for mappers who tend to have visually complex maps that crash Forge.

Actually, this is pretty good stuff, showing a huge step up from the previous two packs. Ascent is extremely well-done; it looks amazing. Riki Tiki Tavi is a really fun map as well. A previous comment on how it's too large to be playable is, in my experience, incorrect; a group of 6 worked quite well, which is what I would expect out of an XL map.

The use of All Shapes on the two largest maps is spotty and imprecise; I think they would have worked better without the Juice augmentation.

I like that there's a lot more ammo, and the lighting and shading has seen a huge boost. If all of the maps were like Ascent, this would have been the easiest 5 I have ever given. Unfortunately, the consistency isn't there yet, and the weaker links detract too much from this little pack.

Two things:

• All of these maps need more guns, without exception.
• The architecture between each level is fairly repetitive, with no real differences between them.

Some of them do actually look nice, and although there are some real oddities with flow in some places, this pack actually has several near-winners. They just need some fine-tuning.

This really does make co-op so much better; what was once an annoyance is now genuinely fun!

Seeing as three of these are contest entries into my contest -- all of which received very positive scores, too -- I'd say that's enough to sell this pack. It's even better than Quick Six! Good stuff.

This pack has very few (arguably no) flaws in it. All of the maps have their own qualities that make them fun to play, and I don't regret playing on any of them.

However, at the same time, there's nothing truly original in this pack. It doesn't explore any new tricks, in my opinion, but it does what's been done before very well. Which isn't bad at all, really. I'd just like to see a little more creativity.

Some of these maps seem unpolished, or have other flaws (like simply being too effing huge); on the other hand, some of these maps are fantastic, and the architecture and geometry overall is fantastic, if not overwhelming. A must-have just for the cool visuals alone, but a keeper for some solid maps.

JUICE does a lot of really useful things that are nice to have on call at a random time. It's not really something I rely on -- yet -- but it's nice to know that, oh, I need to replace all of X with Y... and JUICE is there. Or I have a bunch of floating objects... but JUICE can fix all of those.

It's a great tool to have.

JUICE does a lot of really useful things that are nice to have on call at a random time. It's not really something I rely on -- yet -- but it's nice to know that, oh, I need to replace all of X with Y... and JUICE is there. Or I have a bunch of floating objects... but JUICE can fix all of those.

It's a great tool to have.

A novel idea, but not one that was executed very well. The original map wasn't very good, and this one isn't either. The hallways are cramped, the way to the flags is too confusing, and the main arena is uncomfortable and has untextured sides. An all-around mess.

A novel idea, but not one that was executed very well. The original map wasn't very good, and this one isn't either. The hallways are cramped, the way to the flags is too confusing, and the main arena is uncomfortable and has untextured sides. An all-around mess.